I find this move concerning, and wish that the Founder had looked for a new CEO that shared his values rather than a Private Equity and Mergers Expert.
Furthermore, the change to the GRIT motto is worrying. Trust is useless without Transparency when it comes to code and security.
I just installed Bitwarden because 979 2FA started refusing to show my codes unless I set up a password and fingerprint (and fails when I try anyway). Now to find something else I guess.
I swear, equity is literaly just pure evil, allowed to thrive only due to lack of force opposing it.
Is it that time when I say “oh shit!” and starts to look at alternatives? I’ve seen this scenario a hundred times already and I’m tired.
I don’t have the patience to switch to alternatives until they make a change that actually affects the usability of the tool.
This is absolutely a red flag though.
It takes a full 3 minutes to try an alternative. Export, install new one, import. Install extensions where you need them and sync.
Just FYI, you can export your Bitwarden database to plain text and import that with KeePassXC
All the attachments, though… man this is going to be such a pain :/
Same question here. What are the best alternatives?
KeePassXC is the best FOSS option, but you’ll need to figure out self hosting if you want to sync the database between devices.
As the database is encrypted in your device, you dont really need to self host. A keepass database in the Google cloud is not really problematic, although you should still choose a more private cloud provider.
Syncthing is probably a simple fix.
Assuming you have a degoogle’d phone. The syncthing-fork devs announced that they aren’t going to certify for Google Play when that’s made a requirement in a few months
Ugh, I forgot about this. Aren’t you still going to be able to install apps from third-party marketplaces? I thought the plan was just that the phone was going to hassle you and require multiple hoops.
Yes, that’s the plan
I think other apps will require ADB to install
fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck
I use both KeePassXC and Syncthing for passwords. Works fine.
And you can use a keyfile separate from the database for even more security. If the database is backed up on Google Drive and the keyfile is saved on a USB or in a (non-Google) email somewhere for the rare times you add a new device, your passwords should be safe even from keyloggers or Google themselves.
make sure to use post-quantum encryption algs
Which algs would that be? ed25519 okay? Is that even an encryption alg? I’m not too hot with encryption.
or use syncthing, no hosting experience required
Syncthing on the phone seems to use up a lot of battery, though.
If you don’t need real time sync you can disable background use of the app. That’s what I’ve done, and I just open the app when I need to update. Probably a smarter way to do it, but it works for me.
I found the easiest way to sync is to use rclone. This way you can use any cloud provider like Google Drive or OneDrive or DropBox. First create the rclone remote for your cloud provider using
rclone config. Second step is to create a second remote using the encryption option (menu item 16), choosing an appropriate path<first remote>:<path to directory>. Upload your KeepassXC database to this encrypted remote usingrclone copy.On Android you can use the RoundSync app from F-droid to configure the the same remotes, then create a task to copy or sync from that encrypted remote and a trigger to run that task on a schedule. Overall, this one-time setup works really well for me. This is my backup in addition to using Bitwarden for several years. Bitwarden is not going to get my money any more.
It doesn’t need to be complicated. I use syncthing to synch them. It’s pretty trivial. You just tell it what folders to synch, between which devices, and it’ll synch whenever it’s running.
post-quantum encryption algs
I use the built in ftp sync option with any file explorer that makes an ftp server on my phone.
I use Vaultwarden
But you still use the official BW client apps, correct?
Unless you forego usage of the clients and access Vaultwarden through the browser (removing accessibility and convenience especially on mobile), it is not an e2e replacement solution.
Are there any alternative FOSS clients/apps that work with Vaultwarden?
Edit: I see further down that the official client is open source, and would get forked in the event of any fuckery. So I’m sticking with Vaultwarden + Official client app approach for now.
I just use the webapp UI and don’t bother with the clients/extensions. Easy enough to just log in, copy/paste from there.
But yeah, the official client (and probably browser extension as well) would probably be forked if/when needed.
What about passkeys?
For now
Coincidentally, I moved to self-hosting Vaultwarden last night, which is open source but compatible with Bitwarden. If you want a simple transition and are capable of hosting it yourself, that would be my recommendation.
I’ve been hosting it for a couple years now and question why it took me so long.
Proton Pass.
I’m pretty sure that isn’t self hostable.
That’s true.
I use keepassxc. It does the job.
Alias vault seems the most feature complete and self hostable https://www.aliasvault.net/
KeePassXC + Syncthing to sync passwords across devices
Sigh. This will be a huge pita. I have probably over 100 things saved into bitwarden. Where’s a good foss alternative.
GabeN, please don’t die before me.
Cute. A hundred items :p /j
I’ve been pretty happy with Apple passwords
Oh great. Let’s go from an open client to a vendor closed-source lock-in.
Sometimes I am baffled by the polarity of Lemmy.
From Tryhard-only-libre-software type of users over A-bit-of-each users (but tending to sway towards (F)OSS application) over to this opinion/suggestion.Wild.
Vendor lock in is an issue, true, but it’s a different issue than the enshittification we’re starting to see from Bitwarden. Also, apple passwords isn’t “locked in” per se, as passwords aren’t difficult to export.
Lately, I’m starting to feel like finding good software (often FOSS but not exclusively) is increasingly a hook for later increased monetization. The ‘agreement’ I had with Bitwarden was they provide a solid service, and (while not required) I pay the $10/year honor system fee. That’s been upped to $20 now, and now they’re appearing to move away from their core principles. I won’t be paying for another year.
With Apple, the unspoken agreement is I “overpay” for my hardware, and they don’t have incentive to monetize me otherwise. I’ll admit, there are cracks forming in that agreement, but that’s my read on it currently anyway, and I think probably the person to which you are replying to as well.
Your decision are sound.
Not a fan of the usability of Apple devices (I have an iPad, so I am not talking ou of my butt) but I can’t deny they reduced user hostility is attractive.
iPad usability is in a really weird place. It’s definitely the least “usable” of Apple’s platforms, and to be honest I probably wouldn’t be an Apple user at all if all they had was iPadOS and iOS. macOS is still attractive to me (the Liquid Glass theme notwithstanding). For the record, I split my password manager use between Apple Passwords and [now] self-hosted Vaultwarden. Each has advantages, and while I’d like to just use one, having two is working okay for me for now.
What? Is it frowned upon here to just use what works?
A lot of people chose Bitwarden because it was open-source, so they don’t see the very closed Apple Passwords as a suitable alternative.
Why the fuck does everything that’s good turn to shit? This world sucks. This timeline sucks.
it’s all motivated by the accumulation of wealth = capitalism
Accumulation of power is a common motive regardless of political system. Money is just one way power gets expressed.
Not claiming our system is perfect by any means. But this thought, to me, always felt like kicking the can down the road.
I think there’s a difference though, in that capitalism rewards this kind of innate motive, while socialism doesn’t, so I think it would be much easier to build a system based on that that’s not fucked from the foundations like capitalism is. The societal benefits of capitalism always feel like an accidental side effect at most, when it should be at a heart of any economy system.
Also it definitely seems that holding power over others warps the human mind, so I would definitely advocate for distributing policy-making power as evenly across the population as possible.
That might qualify as an argument but the enshittification of everything hasn’t gained anyone power, only money. Cuba was curing cancer before we started more war crimes in order to prove socialism doesn’t work, while we’re financing fast food.
Kicking the can down the road implies you have a better solution?
A solution that stops evil people from being greedy for all of future society, gaming whatever our system is to hoard resources? No, I don’t.
Whether under capitalism or socialism, either system would need frequent attention and intervention by thoughtful, socially responsible people to watch for abusers of the system.
Right, but Capitalism incentivises this behaviour, thus making the checks and balances required both more robust and needing to be applied for regularly - while the powerful are capable of preventing this.
On the other hand, Socialism has incentives that are completely different - managing the abusers would be a much simpler task.
It’s not a timeline. It’s just the world we keep making. The only one.
VC ruins everything
This is literally a product where a hobbyist tried to fix a niche, and now the VCs arrive.
reading this as someone who migrated the rest of the household to Bitwarden literally yesterday: 😒
It took me years after the lastpass breach to get my wife and 1/3 of my kids to switch to Bitwarden. I am not looking to having to migrate again.
but exporting is easy with bitwarden. this is annoying. after the age check laws, i have been moving off big companies because it will be bad snd i know my migration will take a bit. i finalized bitwarden a couple weeks ago and was just about to assist my family.
i would not be as upset if ram and harddtives didnt cost a mortgage right now.
It does not matter how easy exporting is, the difficulty is going someone who really does not understand why they should be using a password locker to use one, much less change to a different one.
You won’t have to. Bitwarden is FOSS. The server is able to be self hosted so “migration” will just be you moving their account to the self hosted one if things go south
Does this mean other companies are hosting compatible servers to switch to?
I mean some may be offering that but it means you can just rent a cheap. VPS and host your own
What do you use it for?
passwords and secure notes of recovery codes and the like
Luckily BW is open source, and VaultWarden exists. If they enshitify, all it takes is a fork of the browser extensions and apps with a rebrand.
This right here is the only answer
Companies can try to steal the app but they can only steal the name
Exactly, IMO Vaultwarden should just fork the clients and extensions and officially take the lead. Bitwarden can just go the way of OpenOffice for all I care.
I’m out of the loop, what happened to OpenOffice?
OpenOffice was maintained by sun Microsystems and they were bought by oricale. At the time it was seen so negatively that a fork called libreoffice was created and almost immediately became the default office suite for most people who were using OpenOffice.
How would network hosting work, though? Like… do I need to pull my passwords down now?
You can export from any of the BW clients. Then import into sepf-hosted BW or VW.
Yeah, this here is exactly the reason why anytime I have to migrate from any piece of software I’m migrating to something open source and standards compliant.
Short-term, yes. Maintaining the client integrations is a ton of work. If BW ever breaks selfhosted integrations, it’s gonna be a shitshow.
1Password took investor funding, moved to subscription and focusing on corporate.
Bitwarden heading the same way. Great…
This is troubling and I am going to accelerate my migration to Vaultwarden. I’m not going to leave Bitwarden yet but I saw how this played out with LastPass, and I was a happy LastPass customer until I wasn’t.
Docker and caddy make this pretty easy. Even easier if you have a static ip and go to porkbun for a domain.
And that’s only if you wanna access it outside your network. Mostly you can get away with syncing before you leave.
Or just use ZeroTier/Tailscale/NetBird/Wireguard and you can access your server from anywhere without exposing it to the imternet directly.
Yeah I know but I’d rather just expose the services I want.
And I’d rather not deal with extra, unnecessary security concerns.
Cool. You do you and I’ll do me.
I should get a cheap laptop and start self hosting…
The company has long defined its values with the acronym “GRIT,” which used to stand for “Gratitude, Responsibility, Inclusion, and Transparency.” After May 4, it changed the acronym to stand for “Gratitude, Responsibility, Innovation, and Trust.”
It’s not as bad as the headline seems. Transparency is still in the motto. The actual change is:
But still. Why change it at all? Why replace “inclusion” with “innovation”?
It smells like Tech Bro.
There’s just no way to spin that positively, even giving them the benefit of the doubt, especially since they aren’t rolling it back. Someone spent effort to make that values change, so its not an accident nor a “nothingburger”.
Well, trust is literally the oposite of transparency. So i would call it quite bad, especially if you consider that right now i trust these guys with my credit card details, my taxID, all my passwords.
Exactly. In cybersec, trust is someting you try to avoid or at least minimize. Trying to use it as a selling point is ridiculous.
Or it’s something you earn through transparency.
That’s what they are trying to communicate here, yes. But 8.5 million users didn’t need to be told they need to trust the platform, they chose to. As did I with a premium plan to cover MFA and attachments.
Now with business types in charge and a hidden doubling of the fees, that’s more than halfway out the window no matter what the website stands for. I’m guessing somebody decided it’s time to cash in on the goodwill they built over the past decade.
That’s a great point.
I don’t want to trust them either. I don’t want to have to.
The only “devil’s advocate” argument I can think of is they’re trying to appeal to enterprise clients (who would not know that and want to “trust” a security company). That would explain the “I” change: “inclusion” (sadly) sounds political, “innovation” is like corporate catnip. Bitwarden could be trying to attract big fish to fund development, having their cake an eating it.
Removing ‘inclusion’ smells like a pivot to the right, same way DEI is a target for maga
I don’t need my password manager to innovate anything. I would very much like it to include support for all of my tools and machines though.
It’s the change from “users” and “community members” to “customers” for me.
Because the “inclusive” part is already described by the first letter’s “story”?
Ty. So many comments here didn’t see your post and others did but didn’t read it. My take is innovation is a greater priority, and trust protocols. I’ll watch but I’ll wait for it to be a something burger.
“You either die the hero, or you live long enough to become the villain”
Why does every good thing always have to go to shit. Sigh.
because capitalism
This
Nothing good ever lasts. Guess that’s entropy for you.
From the article
Update: After publication, an employee on the Bitwarden subreddit said that “Always free” had been restored on its pricing page, calling it an “oversight” by the marketing team. The product page for Bitwarden’s personal password manager remains unchanged.
Don’t care. Being owned by a private equity bro is enough for me ✌️
Sounds someone was caught doing silly stuff… it will be interesting how this will develop in the future.
i guess unregulated capitalism is inherently entropic… since its utlimately a system that consumes itself until everything is gone and it dies and returns to background radiation.
It’s the investor obsession with forever growth. It ruins everything.
hope this does not fuck up my vaultwarden hosting.
Narrator: …but it did.
I’m amazed that vaultwarden has maintained such fantastic compatibility with bitwarden. …but all it takes is one api with an obfuscated “signed request” to bring it all down.
No?
I get that clients might break, but the web portal running inside vaultwarden isn’t gonna suddenly stop working.
Vaultwarden itself is self-contained. An API change won’t do anything to it.
Then it creates the opportunity (need) for an open sourced client, if that ever happens, I’m confident the community will come together and make one using the currently known API calls.
The current (at least android) client for bitwarden is already open source (GPL 3).
I wasn’t certain what the bitwarden clients were licensed under.
…but if they’re all GPL, then yeah - it’ll just get forked. Just like terraform vs opentufu. Just like MySQL vs MariaDB - it’s a tale as old as time (unfortunately).
Vaultwarden has a backend encrypted db and web server, with it’s own API. The bitwarden clients are currently opensource so there could be a fork for the browser extension, and desktop client. Unlike 1Password, there is a good opensource base.
Same
Ah shit, here we go again…
If you’re looking for alternatives and you don’t care about automatic device syncing, I have been enjoying using keepassxc
If you have a cloud storage provider, and you save your keepass database to it, then you also get automatic syncing for all devices that can connect to that cloud.
Sure, i’ll put my password db somewere I have zero control over, just for convenience
You would’ve already been doing that with BitWarden.
Pretty sure I don’t. I don’t have bitwarden.
Just keepass. On two pc’s and backup to my nas.
Its like you have your own cloud storage provider.
One device on the lan … would not call that cloud.
It does a similar function though. Your devices are able to connect to it and sync a keepass db between the two. You have a solid solution IMO.
my nas.
Wow, talk about missing the point.
your nas is your cold storage provider
Isn’t the keepass db file encrypted?
Not everyone can self-host
I know. Keepass is a stand alone app. It does not need hosting.
https://keepassxc.org/docs/KeePassXC_UserGuide#_storing_your_database
You can keep it on a USB too
You made me think about this a little bit, why couldn’t someone self host?
They don’t own the network, or don’t even have a network to connect to. I probably vastly underestimate the people who do not control their internet connection, or simply use devices that are on cell networks.
There are quite a few people that have a phone and/or tablet, and no WiFi. Not many who would care about this situation, but still
You can sync between devices securely with syncthing.
That being said, the syncthing-fork devs are refusing to get certified with Google Play (which I support) so by the end of the year you’ll need a deGoogle’d phone
Keepassxc DB has strong encryption.
Nextcloud, syncthing, sftp can all be self hosted
I’m the weirdo with the tin foil hat, but thats how I feel about ALL of these services. I don’t care how secure anyone says they are.
It’s incredibly inconvenient, but I have all my passwords saved as documents written in a cryptic and incomplete way so that only I know what they mean on my pc. It sucks that if I don’t remember one I have to wait until I get home, but I’ll never trust any of these services. EVERYTHING gets hacked eventually.
If you are happy with cloud services, please, go ahead. But not for me … True. I’m having close to zero trust however safe they say it is. My choice is to have my data on my hardware that i own and control and can access 24/7.
Ps: You can’t hack me, i carry around my stack of post-it’s on my skin and they have medic style hand written passwords /s
You can selfhost your cloud storage, for instance using Nextcloud, if you want to maintain complete control
I do care about automatic device syncing
