wby always with the wolves?
Look you can either have borders or toilets. Pick one.
In that case, is it even a border if people aren’t frequently peeing all along it?
I guess that’s why Parisians are so patriotic.
The draft but you’re sent to the Canadian/Mexican border to pee on the border line
Surveyor stakes are the equivalent to peeing on a tree these days.
And at our core for millions of years we have been pack animals like the wolf or lion or sheep. Lemmy is filled with packs and tribes that will defend their “territory” by expulsion anyone that disagrees with the pack strongly enough. Just as humans have done for those same millions of years.
I read a study that showed that behavior varies by sex. Women are more likely to exclude an individual from a group while men are more likely to accept almost anyone into the group but just force the ones they view as undesirable to the bottom of the social hierarchy
“… and that’s how I got arrested by border control.”
I love how people call it natural when anyone but a human does something.
That is one literal definition of natural, yes.
Maybe a different interpretation is that “We may belong to a land and the lands don’t belong to us.”
Yes we are primitive animals indeed!
At the end of the day, yes we are.
Return to monkey.
Not just any. Bonobos.
You know I’ve been having trouble with a mean outdoor neighbor cat. Even moose pee didn’t scare that fucker away. Maybe I should give myself a uti then go eat some asparagus then go drink some beers and hold it afters so it gets really concentrated and then go let that burning foul probably should have gotten a catheter stream provide an olfactory anti-mean-kitten-defense (but signal to the nice kittens that they are welcome. It will totally work that way somehow) or I can just trap the mean cat, pop out her chip (although these owners…) then either take her to the only-killing shelter or on a midnight drive to see the turbine intakes at the local dam and if she makes her way back she’s earned it.
uh…
you okay?
I just like yelling at clouds
I must have totally forgotten that I’m a Wolf. I’ve always thought that I’m a Human. Crazy. Good to know that now. But I want that Friedrich Merz pisses on all of them trees at the German Border, because thats how the natural way to mark ur territory just works. And everything from nature is always the perfect and correct bahaivor for eveyone!
Exactly. Wolves are also one of the species that practice infanticide. Clearly there is no point in being better, and we should just replicate everything we see in nature.
Whenever someone makes an appeal to nature, you know you’re in for a treat.
I pissed in my neighbor’s garden, got his wife pregnant and then ripped apart his newborn with my bare teeth and now my neighbor just wanders in the communal parking lot. At first I felt like the bad guy but his wife starts snarling at him whenever he gets close to the house.
Sometimes life surprises you.
Human communities have borders and territories though
Turns out humans like borders too
Good to know that Humans are a Hivemind. Until now I acctually disliked borders. But I am a Human, and you say Humans like Borders. Man thanks for the Warning. I will be working on adapting the Hiveminds Opinion.
Well borders are rather useful and good. Everyone has boundaries with other people, it’s even kinda mandatory for mental well-being. Everyone has borders with their home. Those are even legally enforceable.
I’m fairly sure you’d be rather pissed off if i would randomly walk into your home and started harassing you.
I’m not the State. You are confusing personal boundaries with state borders. Totally different topics. Always a nice try to place state interests into personal interests of an individual. Oldest trick in the book. That’s just like that argument that I need to go die for my country because if I was personally attacked on the street I would also defend myself. These are totally different scenarios. We can live together in big scale while still having private spaces. These things can coexist.
I’d say it’s the exact same principle, just scaled up.
From personal boundaries and home rules, which are set up by each individual themselves. To HOA or apartment complex equivalents boundaries and rules which are set up by democratic voting(hopefully). To a district or state rules and boundaries to country to unions.
But we DO form similar social structures to that of wolf packs. The majority of human history has been one of tribadism
Pretty sure you mean tribalism.
Tribadism (NSFW) is something different.
To be fair the majority of human history has involved tribadism
True, but it’s not a direct cause for forming packs (though it may correlate), and generally less destructive.
I’ve definitely formed packs on that basis, but college was a wild time.
But it stays an Argument purly on Nature. And someone still needs to explain to me why nature automatically means better.
Also, I’d like to know why one animal doing one thing is used to justify human behaviour as “natural” while another animal doing something else is not. (Or even the same animal doing something else is not.)
There are tons of non-territorial animals, for example.
These are processes that’ll just happen organically and those usually have the least upkeep. If something is made artificially it needs to be artificially maintained. I’ll be honest, I am personally against borders, I greatly enjoy open borders in the EU but the fact that borders form naturally is a process we’d be aware of. Just like wealth accumulation in capitalism, its a natural conclusion that’d take measures to avoid.
Why are some things that some animals do used as a justification for humans to do the same, while other animals doing something else isn’t?
For example, Wikipedia says this about the topic:
Territoriality is only shown by a minority of species. More commonly, an individual or a group of animals occupies an area that it habitually uses but does not necessarily defend; this is called its home range. The home ranges of different groups of animals often overlap, and in these overlap areas the groups tend to avoid each other rather than seeking to confront and expel each other.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Territory_(animal)
It is natural to not have borders, and only a few species do.
Our entire world couldn’t be more far away from what nature once was. And there are just so many “artificial” things that have proven to be better than nature. What I’m saying is that just saying that something is natural really does mean nothing. I can be both, good or bad. It’s not like I’m denying nature. Because you said that I need to be aware of it.
“Timberwolf Hivemind” is a damn good band name…
Everybody is against borders until it is what they see as their land that is treaded on.
The amount of “NO U” in this thread is hilarious.
It really bothers me when people use “fear” and “respect” interchangeably. This borders on that.
wrong, there are no borders… so this cant border on anything
Is this meant to be serious?
I hope not, it’s pretty pathetic to try and compare animals or packs of animals having territories, with militarized borders and state appointed violence. I don’t think that’s what the OP is doing, but many other people in these comment absolutely are serious.
Yes but humans are not wolfs. Each behave differently.
Humans, seemingly uniquely among animals, reinvent and reimagine our political lives constantly. We see no evidence that chimpanzees have revolutions or that wolves will try a different model of organization or negotiation. What we observe from H. sapiens is just this. From the beginning of history both written and oral, we have been reevaluating and altering the ways in which we live.
Yeah, humans are two wolves. Way different psychology.
We have to feed the good wolf…
Speak for yourself. There are two wolves inside me --one of them respects boundaries.
Primates also have territories, and chimps, one of our closest relatives, have wars over them.
and bonobos, chimpanzee’s closest relatives have found evolutionary strategies that work without wars. we have changed our ways of eating and living before, we can again. all we need, as a society, is the imagination to remake ourselves as we have before
There is a study from 2024 that says bonobo chimpanzees can be even more agressive than Gombe chimpanzees
https://www.cell.com/current-biology/fulltext/S0960-9822(24)00253-7
Edit; Sync did not play nice with the link.
We have so much extra food we don’t even really need to change much.
And they’re so much smarter than us, we saw no reason to change such a winning strategy.
As a whole, humanity is still just a bunch of angry apes.
That’s not accurate. Humans behave very predictably in most cases
The generally and predictably do not like borders and keep crossing them. You know, passwports in modern society.
I pee on things when I walk around the farm
I’m so gassy I’m not allowed around open flames without an adult anymore.
Is this what enlightenment is?
For the Things? Yes.
Ok, sounds like we don’t have to put so much energy into policing them then.
I imagine that the wolves put nonzero hours into it
Do they?
Most countries dont but there are exceptions to the norm
Call me smudges but I read that as “executioners on the moon” and I thought it was terrifying but also a bit metal
all the executioners failed because the moon ate them.
