• Chakravanti@monero.town
    link
    fedilink
    English
    arrow-up
    0
    ·
    5 days ago

    Bloodywood well regard that guy in Gaddaar.

    Three months after broadcasting that song, WWE bought the UFC.

    Co-Cain is the most hilarious joke ever planted around.

    • bunchberry@lemmy.world
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      0
      ·
      6 days ago

      Surprisingly that is a controversial view. Most physicists insist QM has nothing to do with probability! But then why does it only give you probabilistic predictions? Ye old measurement problem, an entirely fabricated problem because physicists cannot accept that a theory that gives you probabilities is obviously a probabilistic theory.

      • ඞmir@lemmy.ml
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        0
        ·
        5 days ago

        The wavestate is entirely deterministic, and we don’t fully understand where the probabilistic measurement happens. The Copenhagen intrpretation makes it probabilistic but is not proven.

        (even many worlds doesn’t explain why we ourselves only see one macroscopic section of the wavefunction)

        • bunchberry@lemmy.world
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          0
          ·
          edit-2
          5 days ago

          In any statistical theory, the statistical distribution, which is typically represented by a vector that is a superposition of basis states, evolves deterministcally. That is just a feature of statistics generally. But no one in the right mind would interpret the deterministic evolution of the statistical state as a physical object deterministically evolving in the real world. Yet, when it comes to QM, people insist we must change how we interpret statistics, yet nobody can give a good argument as to why.

          We only “don’t fully understand where the probabilistic measurement happens” if you deny it is probabilistic to begin with. If you just start with the assumption that it is a statistical theory then there is no issue. You just interpret it like you interpret any old statistical theory. There is no invisible “probability waves.” The quantum state is an epistemic state, based on the observer’s knowledge, their “best guess,” of a system that is in a definite state in the real world, but they cannot know it because it evolves randomly. Their measurement of that state just reveals what was already there. No “collapse” happens.

          The paradox where we “don’t know” what happens at measurement only arises if you deny this. If you insist that the probability distribution is somehow a physical object. If you do so, then, yes, we “don’t know” how this infinite-dimensional physical object which doesn’t even exist anywhere in physical space can possibly translate itself to the definite values that we observe when we look. Neither Copenhagen nor Many Worlds have a coherent and logically consistent answer to the question.

          But there is no good reason to believe the claim to begin with that the statistical distribution is a physical feature of the world. The fact that the statistical distribution evolves deterministically is, again, a feature of statistics generally. This is also true of classical statistical models. The probability vector for a classical probabilistic computer is mathematically described as evolving deterministically throughout an algorithm, but no sane person takes that to mean that the bits in the computer’s memory don’t exist when you aren’t looking at them an infinite-dimensional object that doesn’t exist anywhere in physical space is somehow evolving through the computer.

          Indeed, the quantum state is entirely decomposable into a probability distribution. Complex numbers aren’t magic, they always just represent something with two degrees of freedom, so we can always decompose it into two real-valued terms and ask what those two degrees of freedom represent. If you decompose the quantum state into polar form, you find that one of the degrees of freedom is just a probability vector, the same you’d see in classical statistics. The other is a phase vector.

          The phase vector seems mysterious until you write down time evolution rules for the probability vector in quantum systems as well as the phase vector. The rules, of course, take into account the previous values and the definition of the operator that is being applied to them. You then just have to recursively substitute in the phase vector’s evolution rule into the probability vector’s. You then find that the phase vector disappears, because it decomposes into a function over the system’s history, i.e. a function over all operators and probability vectors at all previous time intervals going back to a division event. The phase therefore is just a sufficient statistic over the system’s history and is not a physical object, as it can be defined in terms of the system’s statistical history.

          That is to say, without modifying it in any way, quantum mechanics is mathematically equivalent to a statistical theory with history dependence. The Harvard physicist Jacob Barandes also wrote a proof of this fact that you can read here. The history dependence does make it behave in ways that are bit counterintuitive, as it inherently implies a non-spatiotemporal aspect to how the statistics evolve, as well as interference effects due to interference in its history, but they are still just statistics all the same. You don’t need anything but the definition of the operators and the probability distributions to compute the evolution of a quantum circuit. A quantum state is not even necessary, it is just convenient.

          If you just accept that it is statistics and move on, there is no “measurement problem.” There would be no claim that the particles do not have definite states in the real world, only that we cannot know them because our model is not a deterministic model but a statistical model. If we go measure a particle’s position and find it to be at a particular location, the explanation for why we find it at that location is just because that’s where it was before we went to measure it. There is only a “measurement problem” if you claim the particle was not there before you looked, then you have difficulty explaining how it got there when you looked.

          But no one has presented a compelling argument in the scientific literature that we should deny that it is there before we look. We cannot know what its value is before we look as its dynamics are (as far as we know) random, but that is a very different claim than saying it really isn’t there until we look. This idea that the particles aren’t there until we look has, in my view, been largely ruled out in the academic literature, and should be treated as an outdated view like believing in the Rutherford model of the atom. Yet, people still insist on clinging to it.

          They pretend like Copenhagen and Many Worlds are logically consistent by writing enormous sea of papers upon papers upon papers, where it only seems “consistent” because it becomes so complicated that hardly anyone even bothers to follow along with it anymore, but if you actually go through the arguments with a fine-tooth comb, you can always show them to be inconsistent and circular. There is only a vague aura of logical and mathematical consistency on the surface. The more you actually engage with both the mathematics and read the academic literature on quantum foundations, the more clear it becomes how incoherent and contrived attempts to make Copenhagen and Many Worlds consistent actually are, and how no one in the literature has actually achieved it, even though many falsely pretend they have done so.

          • ඞmir@lemmy.ml
            link
            fedilink
            English
            arrow-up
            0
            ·
            5 days ago

            I’m pretty sure this goes against the properties proven of entanglement (Bell test) and how far entanglement can propagate, but I don’t know enough about quantum mechanics to explain why this explanation is incompatible with entanglement.

            However, I don’t currently see how this at all explains computing with superpositions; if it’s just statistics a superposition can never exist, so entanglement doesn’t exist; so quantum algorithms wouldn’t be possible, but we know they are.

          • MOCVD@mander.xyz
            link
            fedilink
            English
            arrow-up
            0
            ·
            5 days ago

            I kinda boil it down to discreet energy packets distributed in an area as field values and the collapse occurs when two discreet packets interact

  • Fushuan [he/him]@lemmy.blahaj.zone
    link
    fedilink
    English
    arrow-up
    0
    ·
    7 days ago

    Math also fails sometimes, we’ve had to invent new math along the way because math is always correct only in the given constraints of how we currently understand math. If those constraints are challenged math evolves.

    Example, imaginary numbers weren’t a thing for a good while and some stuff didn’t work correctly. All math stands upon 1+1=2, we don’t know if that always holds true, for now we asume it.

    • NannerBanner@literature.cafe
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      0
      ·
      7 days ago

      Example, imaginary numbers weren’t a thing for a good while and some stuff didn’t work correctly

      And here’s Lewis Carroll to regale us with a tale that absolutely won’t be misunderstood and taken at face value by later generations about how foolish these silly mathematicians are with their wonky numbers.

    • mexicancartel@lemmy.dbzer0.com
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      0
      ·
      7 days ago

      There are no correct axioms. You can change the axioms as you wish and make your own math2.0. And you will be able to apply it to things that follow thoose axioms but finding such things that follow them is the only hard part. We define 1+1=2 and that is true because we define it that way. If it does not hold true in any physical or something then it is that you are applying a correct math for a system which doesnt work with that math(i.e, you are the problem for assuming the same axiom is true for the real system)

      • technocrit@lemmy.dbzer0.com
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        0
        ·
        5 days ago

        I might go even further and say there’s no “math”. There are a wide variety of axiomatic systems (eg. games). None has the sole claim to being “math”. Maybe they’re all “math”.

        (On the other hand… I guess any system that contains the “natural numbers” would be sufficient for the bulk of what’s widely considered “math”.)

    • Thalfon@sh.itjust.works
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      0
      ·
      7 days ago

      In fact, the entire foundation of math – its system of axioms – has had to be fixed due to contradictions existing in previous iterations. The most well known perhaps being Russell’s paradox in naive set theory: “Let X be the set of all sets that do not contain themselves. Does X contain itself?”

      In fact, there have been many paradoxes that had to be resolved by the set theory we use today.

  • Fedizen@lemmy.world
    link
    fedilink
    English
    arrow-up
    0
    ·
    7 days ago

    Aka

    • Math: Here’s a dozen assumptions and how they interact
    • Physics: Here’s math models we can apply to several observable groups of things.
    • Chemistry: Here’s math models we can usually assume work for a lot of things, but there are so many assumptions they only actually work in very well observed conditions.
    • Biology: The creatures you are studying are weaponizing your observations against you
  • arrow74@lemmy.zip
    link
    fedilink
    English
    arrow-up
    0
    ·
    7 days ago

    Archaeology rifles through the pockets of other disciplines and takes what it wants

  • ranzispa@mander.xyz
    link
    fedilink
    English
    arrow-up
    0
    ·
    7 days ago

    I’m a chemist, I just gave a class to students today. The main topic of the whole lesson was this: we have all these theories and methodologies, we are not going to study how they work and how to use them, let’s discuss now all the limitations they have and when they do not work.

    • Captain Aggravated@sh.itjust.works
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      0
      ·
      7 days ago

      Former chemistry student here. In chemistry, every single thing you ever do gets multiplied by a ridiculously big number. A few drops of water has 6.02*10^23 molecules in it. So even the tiniest chemical reactions are massive exercises in parallel processing, and measuring in human-scale units means you might miss by a few hexillion in either direction.

      Isn’t it amazing internal combustion engines…ever work?

    • thedeadwalking4242@lemmy.world
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      0
      ·
      7 days ago

      “why do you guys do it that way”

      “Look because if we don’t sacrifice the goat on Thursday the code breaks, idk what to tell you”

      • The Stoned Hacker@lemmy.world
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        0
        ·
        5 days ago

        turns out the thursday goat service brings in Dianne from networking who remembers she needs to reboot a apecific device weekly, but its not documented anywhere. When Dianne doesn’t do this everyone freaks out and grabs another goat to sacririce which brings her back because who is she to say no to some good goat, and the cycle is continued and reinforced

  • woodenghost [comrade/them]@hexbear.net
    link
    fedilink
    English
    arrow-up
    0
    ·
    edit-2
    7 days ago

    Math: here’s a theorem, if it’s proven, it’s true until someone finds an error in the proof or in the computer program or its compiler, if it’s a computer assisted proof and the compiler can never be proven not to be flawed (Turing). Or until someone finds an error in one of the assumptions or in their proofs. Or until the axiomatic system used is proven inconsistent and it can never be proven not to be inconsistent (Goedel). Or until you decide you need to work in a different system. Or technically if we stay in the system, but language or culture shifts and we change what we mean by the specific words and symbols used in the theorem.

    Even if it’s true, unless you’re a platonist, it’s not true in the sense that it corresponds to a factual state of affairs in the world (there are no triangles). It’s only true within the system you’re using, just like the sentence: “Sherlock Holmes lives in Baker Street” is only true in the fictional world of the novels by Arthur Conan Doyle. But in a more redundant way, because unlike novels, math statements are tautologies, reducible to a small number of axioms or axiom schemes, while novels don’t follow necessarily from, say, the table of contents.

  • LustLife@fedinsfw.app
    link
    fedilink
    English
    arrow-up
    0
    ·
    7 days ago

    Economics. You forgot Economics. Heres a bunch of rules.

    Let’s Assume you are an Economist. Now if you first overestimate and then underestimate, on average, you are correct in your estimates, Ceteris Paribas .