We are on the way. sex and relationship rates are massively declining for Gen Z.
I have four newphews 16-20. they have all dated. all but one of them has already sworn off dating because they think it’s total bullshit and they thought it was miserable and no fun to have a girlfriend, for the very same reasons, I also am frustrated with dating and relationships in my 40s. It’s insane. It took me 30+ years of dating to get fed up, they were fed up in 1-2 years.
And all of us agree the issue is women’s expectations they get from social media. My 17 year old nephew broke up with his gf because he got her flowers and she complained they were not $200+ that he was a ‘low effort’ boyfriend and all her friends dog-piled in group chat and agreed. He’s 17 and he makes 15 bikes an hour part time…
Like why would any sane person want to subject themselves to group harassment from multiple women for the ‘sin’ of not being able to buy her absurdly expensive flowers? In my situation, I take women out on $100-200 dinner takes and get told that I’m a ‘loser’ for not taking her out to a $1000 restaurant on our 3rd date. It’s INSANE.
None of that happened 10 years ago. If I took a woman out to a $100 restaurant 10 years ago she was STOKED. Now the refrain on the news is ‘men are not good enough for women and women are giving up’. Without acknowledging the changes in women’s expectations for men due to their addiction to social media and constant consumption of ‘lifestyle’ influences.
All anyone blames is the manosphere… and how evil that is. But really it’s both sexes that are swept up in these toxic sexist expectations that are making both of them miserable and lonely and unable to connect with other people.
It’s not new. My cousin constantly argued with her boyfriend 20-25 years ago because she believed she deserved to be taken out to $200 dinners on a regular basis, and he only ever wanted to go to McDonald’s.
it’s not. it means we all suffer because so many of us want to be in happy relationships but the toxic bullshit people believe is totally preventing that. My dates use to talk to me like a human being, now they lecture me because I’m a ‘man’. They see me as guilty until prove otherwise, instead of just a fellow human being who they are trying to get to know.
and the other thing that baffles me is how petty and mean dating has become.
Just explain them their use of fallacies is wrong and communication is key and then, maybe, they will reconsider their position. If they don’t then you dodged a bullet especially in the long term
Where are you finding these women? I’ve never dated anyone like that. Not disputing that they exist, but to take out enough of them that it’s worth bitching about online may indicate a problem with the choices you’re making. Plenty of women are looking for an actual connection and relationship with someone.
they are the majority of the single women in my city in their 30s, on dating apps and in real life. They choose me, i don’t choose them. They send me likes on apps, they chat me up, they go out with me, they date me. Last night I got 3 likes on a dating app from women who said on their profile that they want a ‘real man’ to take care of them… my profile says I am not a ‘real man’. And yet they will still pursue me. They think I am hot/attractive, but they basically want me to change everything about my lifestyle and personality and beliefs…
The women I am interested in aren’t usually single. So unless I start an affair or poach someone’s wife, I can only date the women who are single who are like this. I am not interested in trying to steal people’s wives and girlfriends. Those women don’t have single female friends for me to date either. Every liberal outdoorsy nerdy girl I meet, is never ever single. Some of them are lesbians/queer though and very cool, but again, I can’t really date a lesbian/queer person as a straight guy.
I try to date outside of my city, but women in the suburbs usually even worse and they are usually conservative Trump types who hate me for being a liberal. They also are interested in me.
Many will have married already, so choices when I was in my 30’s tended to be:
Somebody who didn’t marry because they really were careful about who they want to date or settle down with. This could be fine, but could also mean unrealistic expectations or some issue that hadn’t worked through previously (I was in the latter boat)
Somebody who married and divorced, possibly due to a relationship that went bad. They may be the cause of that, the victim of it, or other circumstances. Increased chance of kids and ex issues
Married but the spouse passed away (30+ is increased chances for previously unknown medical issues to crop up, it just a car accident)
Somebody who didn’t have it together enough (in their mind) to even consider relationships. Could have been persuing a career or took a bit to get past the “wild party” stage
Immigrants. People who worked to get out of one country and to another and relationships weren’t in the cards yet. There can be possible language/cultural miscommunication hurdles (including different social cues)
I wouldn’t say it’s the dregs. Just that one’s choices have changed a lot from “the one a couple houses/lockers down from you”.
I’m in my 30s and I don’t feel that way at all. Yeah, there’s lots of shitty people or ones I don’t vibe with but that’s been the case my whole life. Many of the ones that I’d have considered a poor match in my early 20s have matured since then into much more likable people. If you’re using dating apps though, you are probably going to get more exposure to the dregs. One of many reasons I don’t touch those. You can still meet people the old fashioned way by going out and doing things. You may not find someone as quickly but you’re not getting constant negativity thrown in your face.
dating in my early 30s was great. once i got past 35 thought, it all went to shit. 9/10 dates i meet now give me this long premable about how their exes all sucked and i better be better than them. it’s insane. like they will approach me at a bar/event and just start ranting at me, and think it’s cute or ‘flirting’ because they are issuing me a challenge I have to overcome to prove my worth to them. because ‘real men’ want to prove their worth to their woman… yeah right
and the 1/10 one that doesn’t… has never dated and has basically no adult life experience. i did go out with a nice lady last month… but she was had zero real life experience and I’m not interested in that either. she had been living at home until she was 35 and just starting her adult life like she was 22.
every normal, happy, well adjust woman I meet is already married. that includes all my female friends over the years. the funny part is they are so chill you don’t even know they are married because they don’t really talk about their SO at all… because they are their own person and don’t have a partner who defines them and from which they derive their worth and self esteem… and if you flirt with them they just point it out and it’s no big deal.
before i was 35 i used to meet normal people who actually wanted to date normally. but the culture has changed it’s much more hostile and aggressive than it was even 5 years ago. even when I see other people on dates when I am out… often it’s weird and hostile interaction and it’s rarely relaxed. I miss going out with people who were relaxed and chill and who had passions and interests, instead of relentlessly trying to judge every aspect of me and then think they are above all judgement in their quest to acquire a fantasy romance novel of a relationship.
i blame all these gender toxic media shit. i grew up with the idea men and women were the same and our differences were funny and not a big deal. now people act everyone of the opposite sex is the enemy until prove otherwise by subordinating themselves to their ‘tests’ and ‘checklists’. It’s like people are looking for someone to hate more than someone to love, and absolutely no interest in a mutual understanding. but when i see videos of the shit that goes on on tiktok and instagram and all that… holy moly the ‘advice’ people give is just insanely toxic shit.
there is also a huge uptick in traditional gender role crap the past 5 or so years. in 2015 I never saw women demanding 1950s style relationships or demanding men pay for everything so they can be homemakers. now it’s easily 50% of the profiles I see on dating apps. not to mention the crap games where they insist on splitting the bill and then text you after the date that ‘you shouldn’t have let me pay, you are not the man for me’. crap.
sorry, do men dog pile on their friends girlfriends for not buying them nice enough gifts? or not giving him enough blowjobs?
I’ve never had another guy comment on my relationship with my girlfriend. and I’ve never commented on theirs. only thing I ever experience was some bitter virgin types guy telling me how good i have it that I have ever had sex or get female attention at all.
No, I’d argue that women who think that way are simple choosing to be miserable and making excuses for it. And that’s their choice.
They also often blame men for their choice the make them unhappy, weirdly enough.
I don’t date or interact with women who think that way, purposefully. I sure do meet plenty of them, who lecture me about how hard their lives are… and I just laugh at them because most of the time their life is 1000x easier than mine ever was.
The incel slope does seem to have a lot more members lately, whether due to social media or guys bitter from failed relationships, bit I will note that there’s an old adage that still often rings true
“Men will fight each other physically sometimes to the point of bloodshed, but women will tear each other down socially without mercy”
We are on the way. sex and relationship rates are massively declining for Gen Z.
I have four newphews 16-20. they have all dated. all but one of them has already sworn off dating because they think it’s total bullshit and they thought it was miserable and no fun to have a girlfriend, for the very same reasons, I also am frustrated with dating and relationships in my 40s. It’s insane. It took me 30+ years of dating to get fed up, they were fed up in 1-2 years.
And all of us agree the issue is women’s expectations they get from social media. My 17 year old nephew broke up with his gf because he got her flowers and she complained they were not $200+ that he was a ‘low effort’ boyfriend and all her friends dog-piled in group chat and agreed. He’s 17 and he makes 15 bikes an hour part time…
Like why would any sane person want to subject themselves to group harassment from multiple women for the ‘sin’ of not being able to buy her absurdly expensive flowers? In my situation, I take women out on $100-200 dinner takes and get told that I’m a ‘loser’ for not taking her out to a $1000 restaurant on our 3rd date. It’s INSANE.
None of that happened 10 years ago. If I took a woman out to a $100 restaurant 10 years ago she was STOKED. Now the refrain on the news is ‘men are not good enough for women and women are giving up’. Without acknowledging the changes in women’s expectations for men due to their addiction to social media and constant consumption of ‘lifestyle’ influences.
All anyone blames is the manosphere… and how evil that is. But really it’s both sexes that are swept up in these toxic sexist expectations that are making both of them miserable and lonely and unable to connect with other people.
It’s not new. My cousin constantly argued with her boyfriend 20-25 years ago because she believed she deserved to be taken out to $200 dinners on a regular basis, and he only ever wanted to go to McDonald’s.
Won’t be long til they can compromise on that one with the way things are going.
I guess it’s a blessing in disguise because now it will be easier to detect people who are not worth dating
it’s not. it means we all suffer because so many of us want to be in happy relationships but the toxic bullshit people believe is totally preventing that. My dates use to talk to me like a human being, now they lecture me because I’m a ‘man’. They see me as guilty until prove otherwise, instead of just a fellow human being who they are trying to get to know.
and the other thing that baffles me is how petty and mean dating has become.
Just explain them their use of fallacies is wrong and communication is key and then, maybe, they will reconsider their position. If they don’t then you dodged a bullet especially in the long term
Damn.
15 bikes an hour is really fucking impressive, no what what kind of bikes.
Right, depending on the margins, he could probably make good money selling those bikes.
Where are you finding these women? I’ve never dated anyone like that. Not disputing that they exist, but to take out enough of them that it’s worth bitching about online may indicate a problem with the choices you’re making. Plenty of women are looking for an actual connection and relationship with someone.
they are the majority of the single women in my city in their 30s, on dating apps and in real life. They choose me, i don’t choose them. They send me likes on apps, they chat me up, they go out with me, they date me. Last night I got 3 likes on a dating app from women who said on their profile that they want a ‘real man’ to take care of them… my profile says I am not a ‘real man’. And yet they will still pursue me. They think I am hot/attractive, but they basically want me to change everything about my lifestyle and personality and beliefs…
The women I am interested in aren’t usually single. So unless I start an affair or poach someone’s wife, I can only date the women who are single who are like this. I am not interested in trying to steal people’s wives and girlfriends. Those women don’t have single female friends for me to date either. Every liberal outdoorsy nerdy girl I meet, is never ever single. Some of them are lesbians/queer though and very cool, but again, I can’t really date a lesbian/queer person as a straight guy.
I try to date outside of my city, but women in the suburbs usually even worse and they are usually conservative Trump types who hate me for being a liberal. They also are interested in me.
Yikes. Sounds like you’re all single for good reasons.
You’re kinda down to the dregs when you get to your thirties, the nice ones have all paired up by that point.
Many will have married already, so choices when I was in my 30’s tended to be:
I wouldn’t say it’s the dregs. Just that one’s choices have changed a lot from “the one a couple houses/lockers down from you”.
I’m in my 30s and I don’t feel that way at all. Yeah, there’s lots of shitty people or ones I don’t vibe with but that’s been the case my whole life. Many of the ones that I’d have considered a poor match in my early 20s have matured since then into much more likable people. If you’re using dating apps though, you are probably going to get more exposure to the dregs. One of many reasons I don’t touch those. You can still meet people the old fashioned way by going out and doing things. You may not find someone as quickly but you’re not getting constant negativity thrown in your face.
dating in my early 30s was great. once i got past 35 thought, it all went to shit. 9/10 dates i meet now give me this long premable about how their exes all sucked and i better be better than them. it’s insane. like they will approach me at a bar/event and just start ranting at me, and think it’s cute or ‘flirting’ because they are issuing me a challenge I have to overcome to prove my worth to them. because ‘real men’ want to prove their worth to their woman… yeah right
and the 1/10 one that doesn’t… has never dated and has basically no adult life experience. i did go out with a nice lady last month… but she was had zero real life experience and I’m not interested in that either. she had been living at home until she was 35 and just starting her adult life like she was 22.
every normal, happy, well adjust woman I meet is already married. that includes all my female friends over the years. the funny part is they are so chill you don’t even know they are married because they don’t really talk about their SO at all… because they are their own person and don’t have a partner who defines them and from which they derive their worth and self esteem… and if you flirt with them they just point it out and it’s no big deal.
before i was 35 i used to meet normal people who actually wanted to date normally. but the culture has changed it’s much more hostile and aggressive than it was even 5 years ago. even when I see other people on dates when I am out… often it’s weird and hostile interaction and it’s rarely relaxed. I miss going out with people who were relaxed and chill and who had passions and interests, instead of relentlessly trying to judge every aspect of me and then think they are above all judgement in their quest to acquire a fantasy romance novel of a relationship.
i blame all these gender toxic media shit. i grew up with the idea men and women were the same and our differences were funny and not a big deal. now people act everyone of the opposite sex is the enemy until prove otherwise by subordinating themselves to their ‘tests’ and ‘checklists’. It’s like people are looking for someone to hate more than someone to love, and absolutely no interest in a mutual understanding. but when i see videos of the shit that goes on on tiktok and instagram and all that… holy moly the ‘advice’ people give is just insanely toxic shit.
there is also a huge uptick in traditional gender role crap the past 5 or so years. in 2015 I never saw women demanding 1950s style relationships or demanding men pay for everything so they can be homemakers. now it’s easily 50% of the profiles I see on dating apps. not to mention the crap games where they insist on splitting the bill and then text you after the date that ‘you shouldn’t have let me pay, you are not the man for me’. crap.
Brother, if you think this is a one-way thing, you are profoundly mistaken
sorry, do men dog pile on their friends girlfriends for not buying them nice enough gifts? or not giving him enough blowjobs?
I’ve never had another guy comment on my relationship with my girlfriend. and I’ve never commented on theirs. only thing I ever experience was some bitter virgin types guy telling me how good i have it that I have ever had sex or get female attention at all.
Please, do not go down this road. Are you really going to argue that our society does not put unrealistic expectations on women?
No, I’d argue that women who think that way are simple choosing to be miserable and making excuses for it. And that’s their choice.
They also often blame men for their choice the make them unhappy, weirdly enough.
I don’t date or interact with women who think that way, purposefully. I sure do meet plenty of them, who lecture me about how hard their lives are… and I just laugh at them because most of the time their life is 1000x easier than mine ever was.
And I’d argue you’re going full speed down the incel slope, and that’s your choice.
The incel slope does seem to have a lot more members lately, whether due to social media or guys bitter from failed relationships, bit I will note that there’s an old adage that still often rings true
“Men will fight each other physically sometimes to the point of bloodshed, but women will tear each other down socially without mercy”
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