• BloodMuffin@lemmy.ca
    link
    fedilink
    English
    arrow-up
    3
    ·
    4 days ago

    people created the ideas of countries, then made a list of them. USA is on that list.

    if you really want to get philosophical about it, you can say the only fact that anyone knows for sure is that they are experiencing something. Nobody knows for sure that everyone else in the world isn’t an NPC, nor whether this world is real or a hallucination.

    I’m trying to keep it simple for the purposes of this argument

    • OBJECTION!@lemmy.ml
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      3
      arrow-down
      1
      ·
      4 days ago

      people created the ideas of countries, then made a list of them. USA is on that list.

      People? Which people? If I get a bunch of people and declare a micronation within what the US considers it’s borders, is that objectively a country or not? Or suppose I convince a bunch of Americans that Germany isn’t really a country, does it then cease to be a country despite what the Germans themselves believe?

      In any case, I would think that if something falls under the standard of, “This is true because a bunch of people say it is, even though there’s nothing physical you can point to to prove it” then it seems somewhat absurd to call that an “objective fact” What do “objective” and “subjective” even mean, then?

      • BloodMuffin@lemmy.ca
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        1
        arrow-down
        2
        ·
        3 days ago

        I’m not interested in arguing semantics or philosophy. you can disagree with my example, I don’t care.

        the point is, there are objective facts and subjective opinions.

        • OBJECTION!@lemmy.ml
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          3
          ·
          3 days ago

          I see, so you’re only interested in asserting your own philosophical positions, not examining or defending them in any way.

            • OBJECTION!@lemmy.ml
              link
              fedilink
              English
              arrow-up
              2
              ·
              3 days ago

              Apparently? You keep making philosophical assertions.

              You don’t get to assert your philosophical views and then say, “I’m not interested is discussing philosophy” to avoid examination and criticism of those views.

              • BloodMuffin@lemmy.ca
                link
                fedilink
                English
                arrow-up
                1
                arrow-down
                1
                ·
                3 days ago

                do you agree with my assertion that some things are objective facts and some are not?

                • OBJECTION!@lemmy.ml
                  link
                  fedilink
                  English
                  arrow-up
                  2
                  ·
                  3 days ago

                  Yes.

                  Not trying to say that everything is subjective, but that in particular is kind of a bad example.

                  I just think you’re being dismissive, while setting your own ideas as being apart from philosophy.

                  • BloodMuffin@lemmy.ca
                    link
                    fedilink
                    English
                    arrow-up
                    1
                    arrow-down
                    1
                    ·
                    3 days ago

                    i know that any example I could give could be argued against, and I really don’t wanna dive into that because it has no end.

                    like I said, the only thing anyone knows for sure is that they’re experiencing something, call it consciousness or whatever. however, that is not a great example of fact vs fiction, and this isn’t a philosophy debate sub, so I tried to keep it simple.

                    there are better examples, but I’m just trying to explain a simple concept, not get into the bottomless argument of philosophical truth