Thank a lot for sharing it :3

This has been an extremely obvious flaw in the modlog concept from the very start, and has been discussed on and off for years. IMO, it exposes a much wider issue with federated forums as currently implemented, despite the aggressive defense of some vague concept of “openness.”

I agree with your point but would nuance it. Some part are flawed but we also saw the good side of the modlog openess, let’s not forget thay.

Otherwise the community yptb wouldn’t exist, we wouldn’t able to juge our action, user wouldn’t be able to choose their own instance and that’s terrible.

We already have lot power : seeing vote, ban, delete…and for me, the modlog counter-balance our tools. So i hope we can find something in the middle ground. :)

On mod tools, i think we need to developp other tool than than ban and delete, they are very aggresive. I hope we will see new tools that will change the way we take action.

I didn’t know until until dbzer0 or unruffled told us about it.

However dunno if its ideas on property are still revalants today. For example i enjoyed a lot songs from Léo Ferré but a woman told me he was mysognist…and i was unterly baffled by his comment…but its song were powerful. Maybe there is good part ? Or everything is terrible ?

There are lot books to read, and it pile up. For now i focusing on book that study fascism. It. Maybe i should try audio book but that’s harder because i’m deaf. I’m kinda jealous of hearing people, they are lucky. TT.TT

You are not a bad citizen. Just follows yours fellings and needs. But also check how many admin take care of the server and the way they moderate and you will be good :)

I was one of the first to suggest this very idea that unruffled talk about. It was in threadiverse defence chat the 23 April :

Then, later i developped the idea on Piefed zulip chat.

i also agree with unruffled about this part :

But “some control over modlog visibility” is inevitably going to be abused to protect problematic mods and admins.

That was my experience from Reddit

And last point, i’m an anarchist. I don’t read Proudhon as Libb do but i worked in self-managed collective IRL several years ago. And learned lot things, suggested ideas, voted. I was part of the core organization with seven people. So i’m not sure where we are going.

We may disagree, but both side are right. And i wouldn’t minimize the impact of having your real name exposed on internet. Some activists may face trouble with the police, harrassement…

Yes, i will lock your post like the other posts. If you read the other posts i explain why, i can’t handle a heated debate. I need to protect myself. And here is part of my answer to your earlier question when we were playing cat & mouse :

Me: […] I also manage several communities beside this one and i’m doing it during my free time. So…

You: Yes the game of sharing info, which I now see is not allowed here.

Me: Why those three posts are here ? And the comments from mia ? dbzer0 ? Everyone exposed their point of view

So, thank for your comment. Let’s call a day.

I don’t see that way. It was very difficult for admins to remove doxxing info from the modlog.

@[email protected] wanted to remove doxxing info from an user.

Our admins, together, did their best to remove the doxing info from the modlog because it federate accross the fediverse.

Given how serious the issue was, most admins expressed the idea to have an option to remove it from the modlog.

So, it wasn’t only Rimu idea. Rimu is also a dev, so he decided to tackle on this issue.

The last one were Rimu was banned for zionism in a community. A false statement, He was so furious about this misinformation. Although admins from the FAF reverted the ban, the mod & modlog remained.

But, right now, what worry me the most isn’t thing as “rule 2” “zionism” “rude” “bot”…but a bot that spam content throught mod action.

Yes, defederating would partially solve it, but the spam would remain…

So how i see, yes the update was the direct result of this conflict between those two instances. But this conflict wasn’t the only reason, it also revealed some issues from the modlog.

Until now we used yptb, it was used to reveal mods & admins bad behaviour, Rimu benefited from it. However, we were lucky someone hasn’t exploited the modlog yet.

For me, it would be a mistake to ignore it. And yes, hidding modlog from most people also raise issue for me because that’s the keypart in self-managed organization and that a key part in limiting our power.

So i don’t know what would be the best solution. I purposed to piefed dev a “right to answer” in the modlog few week ago in our zulip chat and maybe matrix.

However, you don’t explain why. The extract you shared was the last part of Rimu’s comment :

But this is really a symptom of the modlog having massive fundamental design issues. For example the other day someone’s full name was in there and there was no way to remove it, across all instances, without some weird non-obvious workarounds.

This person asked us, admins to remove it. Imagine that was your full name and address. We delete it and it appears in the modlog.

We can face legal issues if we aren’t able to delete person real name.

It’s public, distributed across hundreds of servers, anyone can create a community and write to it, and it’s write-only. This has obvious abuse potential.

Yes it was related to the ban for zionism. However that’s just the tip of the iceberg…imagine a new spam bot, how will you handle it if it write in the modlog ?

I enjoy the modlog transparency. My mod action is transparent, everyone can see what we do. However there is some downside. Admins struggled to remove that person real name, that wasn’t an easy task.

So there is pro and cons about the modlog. Until now, it served its purpose and allowed users to defend themselve against mod & admin abuse. However we shouldn’t ignore the point above.

As for myself, i don’t know what is the correct answer.

• Create an option to remove your mod’s action from the modlog ? So when you delete comments with your full name, it won’t appear in the modlog ? Then anyone can hide their mod’s action from the modlog ?
• Hide the modlog and only showcase to thrusted people ?
• Create a “right to answer” ? A voting system ?

The solution isn’t simple. 😔

Edit: typo

Here is the full explanation :)

https://piefed.social/post/2048738#comment_11279843

It’s this kind of thinig that makes me think of PieFed as just a pile of hacks with no serious consideration for the Fediverse

Was it necessary ? I invite you to rewritte.