That’s very hostile for no reason.

Not at all related to anything I said?

If the USSR didn’t fall hundreds of thousands of women and children would have been saved from being pushed into prostitution and trafficking, millions would have avoid being plunged into morbid poverty, life expectancy wouldn’t have fallen by nearly 10 years due to the brutal conditions of capitalist shock therapy, there would be no war in Ukraine killing the sons of Russia and Ukraine by the thousand, the socialist block would still be together and would have enough strength that militant resistance against the omnicidal American empire would be more than just a pleasant thought for the future.

You’re very hateful for a third party. The collapse of the PRC that they seemingly “jokingly” called for would be devastating we’ve seen what happened to the USSR already. When did I call them a traitor that’s you putting words in my mouth. And to be able to look through this comment section and say there is no racism against Chinese people is genuinely astounding. Maybe it’s because you agree with the racists.

Why are you still speaking for them. “Apologetics” is when I try explain history to an American illiterate. And I call it spam because you have seemingly sought me out across multiple conversations in this thread you weren’t involved in to insert your idiocy.

Who are you to say what they agree or disagree with. I pointed out we have elections and democracy. That is a fact that they seemingly didn’t know. Why are you here spamming me and accusing me of bullshit just because you are illiterate.

I asked a question out of curiosity after someone came to me and self identified as pro independence. They answered about no democracy, I pointed out we also have democracy. Please just learn to read or fuck off.

I would. Why pro reunification people hold their opinions is equally as interesting as pro independence or status quo believers.

I think you are illiterate. I have commented with you a few times and you seem incapable of grasping basic premises. I don’t care if Taiwan reunifies I was just curious why he holds the belief he does. He provided a reason that I’m my view starts from a flawed premise so I explained my thoughts on that. None of this was lecturing or chauvinism. Please learn what words mean and figure out how to grasp through lines before you talk to me further so we can have meaningful discussions as opposed to you just arguing in circles about bullshit you made up in your mind.

People said the exact same thing about Libya in 2011. ‘Just military targets.’ ‘Just a no-fly zone.’ It’s genuinely impressive how the same script can be rolled out over and over.

What it actually meant was destroying Libya’s air defenses and command systems. Once that was done, NATO pushed regime change, the state collapsed, and the country was handed over to militias, foreign powers, and jihadist groups. That’s the model.

When people say ‘only military targets,’ they’re repeating the same script. You don’t bomb a country’s defenses unless your goal is to weaken it. Once that happens, it’s open season: invasion, proxy forces, destabilization. These strikes are never isolated. They’re step one.

Your Chinese is ok, but I’m here to practice English.

And I have to ask, do you actually believe this? Because this is an evil position.

If the CPC collapses, we already know what happens. It’s been proven before. Economic shock, mass unemployment, pensions wiped out, public assets sold off, and ordinary people paying the price while foreign interests move in. Just like they did to the USSR.

You’re basically cheering for over a billion people to be pushed into chaos and poverty. That’s a horrifying thing to advocate.

And honestly, I’m asking partly because too many Chinese Americans do hold views like this from the safety of the US, sometimes in hopes of fitting in. Rooting for suffering back home to score points is cynical and cruel.

You do know the mainland does have voting, elections, and democracy right? It just operates differently from the vote every 3-6 years model. Representatives to local people’s congresses are directly elected, those bodies feed upward through provincial and national levels, and major legislation goes through consultation and revision processes before adoption. Participation is an ongoing process rather than a single national vote every few years. In my view, that is more substantive than simply choosing between parties every 3–6 years and then having limited influence afterward. There’s a reason long-running surveys (including work out of Harvard) have reported trust in the central government at over 90%. That level of confidence suggests many mainland citizens feel like me in that the system works well to represent us and our needs.

On the strategic question, Taiwan’s role is not defined by whether there are large permanent U.S. bases on the island. It sits at the center of what U.S. defense planners call the First Island Chain, a containment architecture stretching through Japan, Okinawa, Taiwan, and the Philippines. Because of its geography alone, Taiwan functions as a critical strategic node. The United States does not need to station F-15s there for the island to serve as a pressure point, intelligence platform, and potential staging area in a conflict scenario. Arms sales, training cooperation, and naval deployments in the surrounding waters reflect that structural reality. Whether one calls it a “forward base” or not, Taiwan occupies a central place in U.S. regional military planning. Americans call the island the unsinkable aircraft carrier for a reason.

Out of curiosity, what specifically do you think would change in your daily life if Taiwan reintegrated and stopped functioning as a forward U.S. military platform? Concrete impacts like jobs, housing, healthcare, travel, civil rights as opposed to general terms like “freedom” that don’t really say much on their own would be preferred.

I’m not making a value judgement about democracy or development. I’m just describing the history.

The modern political entity of Taiwan exists because the US blocked the conclusion of the Chinese Civil War, militarily protected the KMT regime, and then spent decades turning the island into an anti-communist forward base much like West Germany and South Korea.

After that came massive US capital, security guarantees, and direct political influence (including backing parties like the DPP) which actively promote a separate Taiwanese national identity while marginalizing pro-reunification perspectives. This “identity” was cultivated over generations under Cold War conditions.

Taiwan is not really that culturally distinctnfrom a Chinese perspective. In fact, Taiwan–Fujian cultural distance is far smaller than Fujian to Kunming, or Kunming to Harbin. China has always been regionally diverse. Taiwan isn’t really am outlier.

So yes, many people in Taiwan feel separate today. But that feeling developed under decades of US protection, anti-mainland education, media shaping, and political engineering. Calling that “pure self-determination” while ignoring the external power that made it possible is ahistorical.

I’m not saying this is good or bad. I’m saying the current situation is the product of US intervention. Without that, this holdout simply wouldn’t exist.

Taiwan wasn’t allowed to resolve its civil war trajectory. It was frozen in place and rebuilt as a strategic asset. Everything that followed flows from that.

Whether you view any of this as good or bad is simply down to ideology. Do you support people or money.

Well if not for US interference blocking the final CPC offensive of the civil war the KMT would not have been safe on the island of Taiwan to institute the white terror and setup the holdout it is today. So in a way yes. Also without massive US investment the island would not have been able to modernise in the manner it did and this would likely lead the island to be less developed and more favourable to reunification. Major US backing of parties like the DPP who push hard for the idea of a separate Taiwanese culture that isn’t really that real and whitewashing of Japanese colonization of the island plays a role too. So in a big way yes but it’s more complicated than simply the US saying no.

Maybe, but it’s nowhere near the same scale or normalization. Say something positive about China(from infrastructure to poverty reduction)and it’s instantly “propaganda,” “brainwashed,” “you can’t trust anything from there.” Americans don’t get treated that way as a people. US media is taken as baseline reality despite massive corporate and state influence, while Chinese society unfortunately often gets dismissed wholesale as incapable of independent thought.

You tell me. Why do so many feel the need to use the Chinese civil war split to push racism, xenophobia and chauvinism against the Chinese? Saying Taiwan should be independent isn’t what I’m taking issue with even if I disagree with that statement personally. It’s the racism that you(general you not you specifically) accompany it with.

Let’s cut the bullshit: a lot of what’s being said here is just garden-variety racism dressed up as “concern for democracy.” The way some of you talk about mainland Chinese people(like we’re brainwashed bugs, NPCs, or extensions of the state) is dehumanizing. Full stop. You don’t speak this way about Americans living under mass surveillance, police violence, and corporate rule. You don’t speak this way about Europeans crushed by austerity. Somehow it’s only Chinese people who get stripped of agency.

IWe’re not a hive mind. We argue, complain, adapt, survive, organize families, build lives, same as anyone else. Reducing 1.4 billion people to propaganda victims just so you can feel morally superior is chauvinism. You can criticize the Chinese government without pretending the population is subhuman or that fuck x is legitimate criticism.

And this Hong Kong nostalgia is especially grotesque. You’re romanticizing a British colony run explicitly for banks and property tycoons. No elections for governors. Workers packed into coffin apartments. People waiting decades for public housing. Extreme inequality baked into law. But because it flew a Union Jack and spoke English, suddenly it becomes a paradise of “freedom”? That tells me everything about whose suffering you care about.

You also keep pretending Taiwan exists in some magical vacuum. It doesn’t. It’s the unresolved end of a civil war, frozen in place by US military power, and now functions as an unsinkable aircraft carrier pointed at the Chinese coast. Any major power on Earth would see that as an existential threat. The US would lose its mind if China parked missiles off California. But when China objects, suddenly it’s “authoritarian aggression.” (who remembers the Cuban missile crisis)

If you actually care about peace, stop parroting racist bullshit narratives. Stop flattening Chinese people into stereotypes. Stop acting like Western militarization of East Asia is neutral or benevolent. You don’t have to like the CPC. But if your worldview starts from “Chinese people are brainwashed and inferior,” even if you phrase it with better pr you’re a racist.