European leaders say President Donald Trump’s decision to pull thousands of U.S. troops out of Germany came as a surprise but is further proof that they must take care of their own security.

  • panthera_@lemmy.today
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    3 days ago

    The negotiations between Trump and Putin are not just theatrics. The problem is that Putin is demanding a lot and Trump presently is not willing to go that far.

    The war in Ukraine cannot be allowed to continue forever. It is draining the economies of Europe. Europe could be facing the choice of fight now or later. It’s better to fight now while Ukraine is strong. The UK and France gave the Sudetenland to Hitler hoping it would stop his aggression. It didn’t. When Germany invaded Poland, the Uk and France declared war but did nothing. They should have attacked Germany from the west while much of Germany’s forces were in Poland. The result was that Germany later invaded France and despite considered one the world’s most powerful countries, surrendered in 6 weeks.

    • Vergissmeinnicht@lemmy.ca
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      10 hours ago

      Yeah, I too have learned about WW2 history.

      But you’re unable to divorce hindsight from a contemporary perspective and political reality. Obviously in hindsight the UK and France should have drawn a line in the sand at the annexation of the Sudetenland. But that wasn’t obvious to everyone at the time, and those who did see it didn’t have the political capital to do anything about it. Reality isn’t a game of HOI4.

      The question isn’t whether the UK and France should go fight Russia, the question is whether it’s realistic for that to happen.

      You’re arguing ideal hypotheticals while ignoring reality.

      The negotiations between Trump and Putin are not just theatrics. The problem is that Putin is demanding a lot and Trump presently is not willing to go that far.

      It is draining the economies of Europe.

      That’s complete nonsense. It’s draining the economies of exactly 2 countries, Russia and Ukraine. The rest of Europe is only hurting a little bit due to higher energy costs.

      • panthera_@lemmy.today
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        10 hours ago

        History teaches what can happen when countries seek to avoid war against an aggressive country. Both the UK and France ended up at war.

        Reality can change depending on the future. Suppose Putin is on the verge of victory.

        No, the war is draining the economies of Europe because Europe is supplying Ukraine with weapons. The US is forcing Europe to pay for the weapons it supplies.