Chanting ‘from the river to the sea’ would be criminalised under proposed state law
Hier geht keiner in den knast für sowas, sind ja keine dummen amis, die ihre bevölkerung wegsperren
Albert Einstein’s letter to the NY Times was 100% correct about Israel and Palestine. Is the German government going to trash his name too?
Based on that time 3200+ years ago when they stole it.
I wonder if they’ve the gall to jail somebody for wearing a t-shirt which reads:
Palestine & Israel have EQUAL right to exist.
?
_ /\ _
And let me guess, the proposed law does not criminalize anyone saying “Between the Sea and the Jordan there will only be Israeli sovereignty” (Likud’77) or denying Palestinians the right to self-determination (there is no such thing as a state’s right to exist under international law, contrary to the very real right to self-determination, enshrined in the UN Charter, that Germany is a signatory to).
These jewish-supremacist idiots are fuelling anti-Semitism, while propping up a genocidal apartheid regime.
That’s just what total democracy looks like. Completely normal. In Germany, some political parties (left and right) are also banned to make sure they can’t ever be elected.
Germany is not a total democracy, whatever that’s supposed to mean.
And so far there have only been three parties that have been been banned since 1945 and those are
-
NSDAP by the Allies in 1945 for obvious reasons
-
SRP in 1952 because they were a successor party of the NSDAP
-
KPD in 1956 because they wanted to abolish democracy in favour of a soviet system
Given that Germany’s democratic state supports genocide and bans anti-genocide speech, I think the KPD were probably right.
I’d rather have a damaged democracy than a totalitarian regime.
What you mean is “I would prefer to have a high degree of personal freedom for myself while my government supports genocide of others, rather than have less personal freedom while my government doesn’t support genocide.”
Apropos of nothing, Nazi Germany wasn’t a bad place to live if you weren’t one of the targeted groups and if you stayed in line and didn’t espouse the wrong politics. Until the war came home and the bombs started falling, anyway.
You’re either willfully ignorant or plain stupid. Either way I’m not wasting any more time with you.
I wonder what the legal basis for this is? Is there a constitutional provision that allows banning of parties that seek to end democracy?
If so, I wonder how that would work for someone that wanted to end electoral democracy, but not for any malevolent purpose? For example, instead advocated for a different or non-electoral democratic system, but still with noble intentions? For instance, under the German system, could a party lawfully argue to a system based on sortition?
In sortition, public offices are assigned by lottery, as we handle jury selection today. It doesn’t guarantee the most competent leader will be elected, but elections also clearly don’t select for the most competent leader. The main advantage of sortition is that, unlike elections, it doesn’t select for the most power-hungry and psychopathic members of society. It’s long been said that no one who actually wants power should be given it, and sortition is a way of solving that problem.
Could someone in Germany advocate for moving to sortition, or would that violate some constitutional provision meant to protect electoral democracy?
-
Okay Germany, but this time they might deserve some of the hate.
So called right to exist.
* proposed law, which likely won’t pass.
But, true enough, the proposition is insane.
Supporting any Palestinian group in Germany in public will get you arrested. All Palestinian charities are banned due to links to ‘terrorism’ (aka the actual government of the gaza strip which any organization would have to work with in order to do things, you know, like how all states work.)
Can’t speak for Germany but in the United Kingdom it’s Palestine Action that has been officially declared a terrorist organisation because they stormed an army base. That means it’s illegal to protest for Palestine Action, but you can still protest in support of Palestine.
Supporting any Palestinian group in Germany in public will get you arrested
My auntie just visited and left 30 minutes ago. She participates basically in any Pro-Palestine protest in Frankfurt and vincinity. She was never arrested.
My father, who went to his last demonstrations some 45 years ago even participated in some Pro Palestine protests. He was not arrested.
My mother wrote to the government of Hesse like every other week to take down the Israel flag in front of the government seat, and, believe it or not, she was not arrested.
The climate around supporting Palestine in Germany is bad. Many people get arrested and that is wrong. But claims like “showing support for any Palestinian group will get you arrested” are not true (yet).
One of the big tests whether ‘free speech’ means something or whether Germany is a vassal state is still in the juidical system (obviously source in German). I hope once the constitutional court rules, it’ll be on the right side of history.
The idea that people breaking the law do not always get caught means there is no law is ridiculous, especially when you state people are being arrested for it.
‘not getting caught’ as in being in a protest accompanied by a lot of policemen? They don’t go to a dark alley and whisper “free Palestine” in order to not “get caught” 😅
There’s no law prohibiting to support Palestine. As you can see in the source I linked before. There are very controversial takes about what crosses the line. The famous “from the river to the sea” being one of it. People who are brought to court for that half go free, half get sentenced. That shows that even within “the system” it is very unclear. Thus, it’s about time to get a ruling by the highest court. I guess one day that will even go to the European Court, and I anticipate that it will rule in favor of free speech.
And guess who’s arrested and brutalized by the police? PoC, because the police is racist, and voicing support for Palestine gives them a reason - like “I heard those PoC say ‘death to all Jews’, so let’s beat them up. If they defend themselves we bring them to court for resistance, all my police buddies heard it as wall”. But not because there’s some distinguished law against “supporting Palestine”.
Fuck the speech police
Israel: a country so weak and pathetic it controls peoples speech.
What’s considered hate speech or incitement changes constantly.
The tought police will get you next
You Europeans give Americans so much shit; This shit would NEVER happen in the US. We can say whatever the hell we want.
You can say whatever you want, but have to live in fear, that some government thugs in unmarked vans snatch you from the street and let you vanish in detention camps. Idk.
But, true enough, this proposed law discussed here is going too far. Fingers crossed that it does not pass (and it likely won’t).
Rings a bit hollow when Europeans are being denied entry because we don’t like Trump and the president is trying to shut down independent media.
The US considers that no foreigner is entitled to passage in the country unless the government wills it. They’ve been milking this concept pretty much recently. But a US citizen can have as many memes they want on politicians and are allowed to enter and leave freely.
Yeah I give you that, our border laws are insane
Not only that, as an American citizen I can go to prison for existing in public. The immigration officers are a secret police that could detain me on the spot for my gender expression not matching my government ID, and my skin is the right shade of brown to receive their racial profiling.
I’m the type of American citizen who is on the front line for this shit, but when there is no one left to speak up for you, you’ll be next. They will take your right to vote by rigging elections and making the legislature irrelevant. They will throw you in jail for being a terrorist if you oppose fascism. They have shown open disregard for the Constitution at every juncture, and if you become a problem person, don’t expect it to save you.
This is not a distant problem, it is knocking at your door. You can’t claim America is “free” anymore. That era is over.
…we tend not to care about people who aren’t United States citizens.
Or US citizens who aren’t a certain color, or gender, for that matter.
Despite on what you might read on Lemmy, most Americans aren’t overtly racist. Alot of people want to reduce immigration, but that is because 80-90% of our total population growth is the result of immigration.
… it’s not just about the impact it will have on our culture. As automation continues to take low income jobs, we will have a large surplus of unemployed lower class workers. There is a correlation between our low population density and our high standard of living.
“So far, no federal law has been adopted.”
The law talked about in the article has also not passed. It is a proposal.
Are they going to make the cells out of Irony?
People who are now Israelis have a right to exist, just like everybody else.
The nation of Israel has no right to exist, same as all other nations.
Funny how racialized politics, autoritarianist tendencies and even a certain view of nation states as more important than people, did not stop when NAZI Germany was defeated and are still very much alive and acted on in Germany - the symbols such as swasticas and goose-stepping aren’t displayed anymore but the fundational aspects of the NAZI view of the world, of the value of people and of the validity of the use of force to suppress ideas the powerful dislike, are still alive and well in Germany.
The nation of Israel has no right to exist, same as all other nations.
I don’t know about this as a blanket declaration. I’m no moral philosopher, but if I can imagine Trump saying this in a speech announcing the annexation of Canada, then there’s probably something morally wrong with.
People have a right to self determination and that includes nations.
Not really. There’s no place in my country or anywhere else on earth I can go with like-minded people to form a new nation.
That’s why Israel was created under European imperialist occupation. Is that self-determination?
Germany is going too far…
Too far right.
Too far right Yes, I’m sure the AFD will support this law.
There’s a weird thing with Europe where the far-right is less supportive of the fascist world empire (since they’re sovereigntists, while the fasicst world empire is supranational), while the center right and center left are all-in.
