There’s that stereotype of gay people being flamboyant, and often hopping in excitement. That created a bunch of associations between hopping animals and gay people; e.g. “gazela” (gazelle), “bicha saltitante” (jumping/hopping beast*), but specially “veado” (deer). Often spelled as “viado”.
And there’s a gambling lottery called “jogo do bicho” (critters’ game, or animals’ game). Illegal but extremely popular, to the point some knowledge of the game is part of the popular culture. It associates 25 animals with numbers, and #24 is “veado” / deer.
So: if 24 is veado, and veado is gay, then 24 is gay. Plop it into a macho culture, much like in the rest of Latin America, and you’ll see people avoiding the number. Even for their birthdays. Remember Latin America has a macho culture, and that leads to weird paranoias.
Nowadays it’s mostly a joke; but frankly I don’t like it, it still treats gay people negatively, as if “gay” was “to be avoided”. Roughly in the same level as “we did $thing but no homo!” in English, you know?
There’s an illegal gambling game that has been extremely popular for decades called the animal game (jogo do bicho), in which each number represents an animal. 24 is the deer (veado). There’s also a derogatory word for gay men, viado. The two words sound the same. So 24 is “the deer’s number” but it sounds like “the fag’s number”.
Viado comes from desviado, which means someone who was driven off the proper path. It’s just a matter of homophony (and homophobia).
Viado comes from desviado, which means someone who was driven off the proper path. It’s just a matter of homophony (and homophobia).
I’ve seen people backtracking the etymology to desviado and transviado. I don’t buy it because clipping (truncamento) in Portuguese usually preserves the start of the word, even at the expense of the stressed syllable; e.g.
universidade university → uni
refrigerante fizz, soda, coke, pop → refri
depressivo depressed → deprê
So following the same pattern for “desviado” the result would be *des or *desvi, not “viado”.
The explanation may be as simple as that the word works better as an expletive by keeping the stressed syllable. All the examples you gave are “friendly” clippings but “viado” is derogatory.
I think it also applies to expletives. Check for example ⟨vagabunda⟩* /va.ga.'bũ.da/; if there was some pressure to keep the stressed syllable it would be clipped into *bunda or *gabunda, but it’s usually clipped into ⟨vagaba⟩ instead. Technically the /b/ from the stressed syllable is still there, but the core /ũ/ ⟨un⟩ is gone.
*gotta explain this one to the folks here. “Vagabunda” means whore, promiscuous woman, etc. It’s highly offensive, way more than the nearest English equivalent (slut), it’s the sort of word to not use even in a joke. (The masculine “vagabundo” is depreciative but socially acceptable — it means lazy arse, do-nothing.)
Nicknames are often erratic — cue to Juca (Joaquim), Chico (Francisco; no idea why the /ʃ/), Mafê (Maria Fernanda). I don’t know why, but I feel like they work through a different logic than simple shortenings.
Se incomoda se eu responder em português? Então, pra resumir a missa: tenho quase certeza que o xingamento (viado) vem do nome do bicho (veado). Motivos:
Em português é comum alçar [e o] para [i u] logo antes da sílaba tônica; principalmente em hiato, que vira ditongo, e o [i u] vira [j w]. (O nome técnico disso é “alçamento pré-tônico”, caso queira procurar papers sobre o assunto.)
Palavrões muitas vezes são escritos com uma ortografia mais popular, não-padrão, representando a pronúncia. Há outros exemplos disto; tipo boceta→buceta, foder→fuder, até mesmo caralho→caraio (e olha que [ʎ] “lh” →[j] “i” é bem restrito dialetalmente)
Há outras expressões usadas para atacar a comunidade gay, associando-os com bichos saltitantes; tipo “gazela”, “biba saltitante”, etc. Tem também “bambi”, mas essa é claramente derivativa de “viado”.
Convincente. Dei uma pesquisada e me deparei com esse texto aqui, que atribui a origem do termo a um homem específico, um socialite português que vivia em Niterói, dono da marca Cigarros Veado e notório por suas escapadas com homens. O jornalista que inxestigou o assunto descartou as hipóteses do desviado/transviado.
Realmente o mistério é mais difícil de solucionar do que parece à primeira vista.
Realmente o mistério é mais difícil de solucionar do que parece à primeira vista.
É geralmente assim com palavrão, a etimologia é sempre uma bagunça. Eles são usados constantemente então o significado evolui muito rápido, só que quase não tem registro, as pessoas evitam de escrevê-los.
Só pra te dar um exemplo. Um dos palavrões com etimologia mais bem estudada é o “merda” do latim. Sabemos ser herdado do proto-indo-europeu, e que os falantes de latim usavam-no direto, já que tudo quanto é língua neolatina herdou a merda. Mesmo assim a gente quase não sabe em que situações os falantes de latim usavam a palavra, porque quase nunca era escrita; só em uns epigramas do Marcial e umas pichações em Pompeia. (inb4 sim, é o mesmo “merda” do português.)
Com esses insultos é a mesma coisa. As pessoas evitam de registrar. E nisso a gente perde a história deles.
This suggests widespread homophobia if enough of them could combine their brainpower to form these few thoughts
Yup, that’s accurate. Welcome to Latin America and its macho culture. People don’t even get why those jokes are bad. Then when the LGBTQ+ community correctly points out that “a piada mata mais do que a bala” (the joke kills more often than the bullet), the default popular reaction is to claim “waaah they’re overreacting” (spoilers: they aren’t).
Can someone share some lore what is the connection between being gay and 24 in Brazil?
I shared it ITT, but basically:
There’s that stereotype of gay people being flamboyant, and often hopping in excitement. That created a bunch of associations between hopping animals and gay people; e.g. “gazela” (gazelle), “bicha saltitante” (jumping/hopping beast*), but specially “veado” (deer). Often spelled as “viado”.
And there’s a gambling lottery called “jogo do bicho” (critters’ game, or animals’ game). Illegal but extremely popular, to the point some knowledge of the game is part of the popular culture. It associates 25 animals with numbers, and #24 is “veado” / deer.
So: if 24 is veado, and veado is gay, then 24 is gay. Plop it into a macho culture, much like in the rest of Latin America, and you’ll see people avoiding the number. Even for their birthdays. Remember Latin America has a macho culture, and that leads to weird paranoias.
Nowadays it’s mostly a joke; but frankly I don’t like it, it still treats gay people negatively, as if “gay” was “to be avoided”. Roughly in the same level as “we did
$thingbut no homo!” in English, you know?There’s an illegal gambling game that has been extremely popular for decades called the animal game (jogo do bicho), in which each number represents an animal. 24 is the deer (veado). There’s also a derogatory word for gay men, viado. The two words sound the same. So 24 is “the deer’s number” but it sounds like “the fag’s number”.
Viado comes from desviado, which means someone who was driven off the proper path. It’s just a matter of homophony (and homophobia).
I’ve seen people backtracking the etymology to desviado and transviado. I don’t buy it because clipping (truncamento) in Portuguese usually preserves the start of the word, even at the expense of the stressed syllable; e.g.
So following the same pattern for “desviado” the result would be *des or *desvi, not “viado”.
The explanation may be as simple as that the word works better as an expletive by keeping the stressed syllable. All the examples you gave are “friendly” clippings but “viado” is derogatory.
I think it also applies to expletives. Check for example ⟨vagabunda⟩* /va.ga.'bũ.da/; if there was some pressure to keep the stressed syllable it would be clipped into *bunda or *gabunda, but it’s usually clipped into ⟨vagaba⟩ instead. Technically the /b/ from the stressed syllable is still there, but the core /ũ/ ⟨un⟩ is gone.
*gotta explain this one to the folks here. “Vagabunda” means whore, promiscuous woman, etc. It’s highly offensive, way more than the nearest English equivalent (slut), it’s the sort of word to not use even in a joke. (The masculine “vagabundo” is depreciative but socially acceptable — it means lazy arse, do-nothing.)
There are other exceptions, though. Take the nickname for Fernanda, Nanda [nɜ᷈dɐ]
Nicknames are often erratic — cue to Juca (Joaquim), Chico (Francisco; no idea why the /ʃ/), Mafê (Maria Fernanda). I don’t know why, but I feel like they work through a different logic than simple shortenings.
Good argument. But then where do you think viado comes from?
Se incomoda se eu responder em português? Então, pra resumir a missa: tenho quase certeza que o xingamento (viado) vem do nome do bicho (veado). Motivos:
Convincente. Dei uma pesquisada e me deparei com esse texto aqui, que atribui a origem do termo a um homem específico, um socialite português que vivia em Niterói, dono da marca Cigarros Veado e notório por suas escapadas com homens. O jornalista que inxestigou o assunto descartou as hipóteses do desviado/transviado.
Realmente o mistério é mais difícil de solucionar do que parece à primeira vista.
É geralmente assim com palavrão, a etimologia é sempre uma bagunça. Eles são usados constantemente então o significado evolui muito rápido, só que quase não tem registro, as pessoas evitam de escrevê-los.
Só pra te dar um exemplo. Um dos palavrões com etimologia mais bem estudada é o “merda” do latim. Sabemos ser herdado do proto-indo-europeu, e que os falantes de latim usavam-no direto, já que tudo quanto é língua neolatina herdou a merda. Mesmo assim a gente quase não sabe em que situações os falantes de latim usavam a palavra, porque quase nunca era escrita; só em uns epigramas do Marcial e umas pichações em Pompeia. (inb4 sim, é o mesmo “merda” do português.)
Com esses insultos é a mesma coisa. As pessoas evitam de registrar. E nisso a gente perde a história deles.
homophonophobia?!
Wow it’s like a homophobic lasagna. My heart goes out to you, gay Brazilians
This suggests widespread homophobia if enough of them could combine their brainpower to form these few thoughts
Yup, that’s accurate. Welcome to Latin America and its macho culture. People don’t even get why those jokes are bad. Then when the LGBTQ+ community correctly points out that “a piada mata mais do que a bala” (the joke kills more often than the bullet), the default popular reaction is to claim “waaah they’re overreacting” (spoilers: they aren’t).
Luckily for us there’s nothing gayer than working together, so we should be safe
It’d be also good to mention that Illuminati confirmed